#30 Why are you learning Arabic?

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#30 Why are you learning Arabic?

Postby jookieapc » Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:14 am

First of all Mohammed and Ehab thank you very much for your efforts on the show - I'm enjoying listening to your podcasts and I'm learning from them.

I have 2 questions about one of the lines in the dialogue of lesson #30 if you wouldn't mind answering them for me.

أبي من السودان و أريد تعلم لغتة
Abi min Alsodan wa ureed ta3allom lu3’atah.
My father is from Sudan and I want to learn his language.

Q1: How come the verb for 'I learn' is not used in this sentence? I would have the thought the correct thing to say is
أريد أن اتعلم لغته
Q2: Why is the part translating to 'his language' voiced as lu3'atah instead of lu3'atuhu or lu3'atihi? Is this a grammatical thing I'm missing or a dialect pronunciation?

I'm curious too, if you don't mind saying, where are you from Ehab? And one final thing.. I don't know if you're aware but did you know you can include PDF files in your RSS feed and iTunes will download the PDF files as well as the audio files.

Oh and one more thing if you don't mind. What is being sung in the introduction song?

Thanks again for your good work

Salam,
Ben
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Postby mujtahida » Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:26 pm

About your first question... I was thinking the exact same things actually, maybe Ehab can explain for us.

I can tell you what I remember learning with regards to your second question, although i'm not exactly sure of the answer. I'm sure the teachers at Arabic Pod will correct any errors.

Basically there are different cases that words in a sentence can be in and these are named nominative (in Arabic marfoo3), accusative (man9oob) and genitive (majrur).
For example in the sentence
"Kataba al-waladu kitaaban" - "The boy wrote a book"
"The boy" is the subject (faa3il) and takes the nominative case, thus it is "al-waladU" it has a dummah (U).
"A book" is the object (maf3ul bihi) of the sentence and is in the accusative case, thus it is "kitaabAN", it takes fathataan (AN).
"Kataba" is the verb.

In Arabic, sentences usually take the form verb-subject-object (fi3l, faa3il, maf3ul bihi).

Words in the genitive case, such as words following a preposition* take a kasra (I) ending. eg "Ta7ta as-sareerI" = "under the bed".
There is also genitive that is used to show possession, eg "haqeebatu al-mu3allimI" = "the teacher's bag". The possessor, in this case the teacher, al-mu3allim, takes a kasra ending.

The object is what the verb is done to, in the example taken from the lesson, "lughah", is the object of the sentence, it is what the boy (the subject) wants to learn. The word "lughah" is in the accusative case, that's why it takes the fatha (A) ending lughatAhu.

Very sorry if all that was a big jumble of words which made no sense, I'm no teacher. And I apologise if I maybe dumbed it down too much and you knew all of that already. Anyway hopefully there'll be something beneficial in there for someone.

Salam

*prepositions = in, under, behind, infront of, on top of etc
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Postby Ehab » Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:29 am

Ahlan bik ya Ben;
Thanks for your question. I could see where is the confusion come from, to clarify the things, I need to confirm what Majtahida (Thanks for the great explanation ) said: In Arabic, sentences usually take the form verb-subject-object (fi3l, faa3il, maf3ul bihi).
The verb Ureed أريد means "I want" ("I" is used because we have Alef in أريد) so the verb and the subject (Fi3l and fa3il) are there, now we need the object, which needs to be a noun. Here where the word TA3ALLOM "تعلُّم"comes, if I tell that TA3ALLOM is a noun, would that clear the things, or if I differentiate between TA3ALLOM "تعلُّم" and TA3ALLAM "تعلَّم" I would say: TA3ALLOM is a noun means "learning" while TA3ALLAM is a past tense verb means "learned".
So, after using UREED, we need a noun to be the object, so we used TA3ALLOM, however, you can use another advanced way that is equivalent to noun but it is more phrasal rather than being a single noun, we call it MA9DAR MO2AWWAL which consists AN(أنْ) + VERB = NOUN , meaning: if we proceed the verb with AN "أنْ", then the verb would be equivalent to a noun. An example would make it easy: AN + ATA3ALLAM = TA3ALLOM "أنْ + أتعلَّم = تعلُّم" that means both sentences you wrote are right, and the actual meaning would be: I want learning his language, but grammatically (in English) "want" can't be followed by a verb directly, it always needs "to", that's why in ArabicPod we give the general closest meaning to give the proper teaching language (English) as well as the proper taught language (Arabic) and so we used "to learn" in the translation and we didn't explain much about it because it is a beginner lesson.
About your second question. In Arabic, when you finish a sentence, you don't put the 7ARAKA ( fat7a, 9'amma and kasra) and simply use the SKOON instead, such as LU3'ATAH instead of LU3'ATAHO. Normally we give a little pause after a sentence is finished, the last word before that pause does not take the 7ARAKA and a SKOON is used instead.
I hope that explanation clarifies what you are after.
M7ammad Moshaya is doing the RSS so I hope he has got your message, I'm interested to know about it and I'll do my best too.
If you are interested to know more about the introduction nasheed, then see this post in the forum:
في النهاية, أنا من الأردن and you find out what I wrote there :)
Keep it up and wait for a lot :) more to come, Majtahidah thanks again for you effort and I would love to see you sharing your knowledge and experience more in the forum.
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Hello

Postby tomest05 » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:05 pm

Hi Arabicpod!

Was going through all the old posts I missed while being busy the past month. I must say that was a great explanation. I both dread and look forward to the lesson on nominative, genitive, and accusative cases... I always had a hard time practicing those with native speakers because many always want to drop them! For other learners, from My understanding of Arabic, it's very very difficult to speak in full sentences using all the case endings, I feel that even native speakers dread it.

Hehe, but to me it makes the language sound even more beautiful! And is the closest to the Quran, if I am thinking properly!

Thank you Mohammed and Ehab again for enlightening us, الأمي
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Postby jookieapc » Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:25 pm

mujtahida and Ehab thank you for your replies. Your answers were very useful. I guess when I'm speaking now I'll have to be sure when I intend to finish the sentence so I don't end on a 7araka

No offence intended mujtahida, I appreciate your efforts but it seems from Ehab's answer that the answer to my question about lu3'atah didn't have anything to do with the case endings.. or am I missing something? If the proper fuS7a case ending were used would there be an ending - nominative/accusative/genitive?

Sorry I have one other question on this point. Is it difficult for native speakers to hear the possessive pronoun on nouns appearing at the end of the sentence? I mean for me in this example, I can barely hear the ending "h" without the 7araka and I guess I only have a clue about it because the teh marboota has the teh sound as a result of the possessive ending.
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Postby mujtahida » Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:33 pm

thanks, glad u found some of my stuff useful
don't worry no offence taken.i guess what i thought about "lughatah" was wrong, the sentence is a more difficult structure that i don't know about.
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Postby Ehab » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:45 pm

Shokran everyone for taking part in the discussion;
In Arabic, whenever a sentence is finished, or there is a pause among the parts of the line, you do not pronounce the 7araka of the last letter of the word before the pause. This and the complexity of deciding what 7araka to use are the reasons of you hear the endings are with sukoon, i.e lo3'atah not lo3'ataho.
To decide the 7araka of the ending, you need to be linguistically educated and also used to say the right thing immediately, meaning, you can't stop after each word and think then say the next word,, it is all about practising with right knowledge.

Arabic native speakers can hear and know the possessive pronoun depending on the context, where the meaning tells you that a pronoun should follow.
Jookieapc, Mujtahida and Tomest05, if you have any more enquires about this,, I'll be more than happy to answer.. ma fi shi 9a3b inshallah :wink: .
Salam
Ehab
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Postby jookieapc » Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:23 pm

Thanks Ehab you answered all my questions comprehensively. Insha'alla I'll study a few more of your new lessons and get back to you with questions. شكرا جزيلا على المسعادة
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uriid 2an uSbe7a mutarjima

Postby Afreeqiya » Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:10 am

سببتي للتعلم هذة اللغة القوية هي تساعدني على التفكير عن ثقافات أخرى.اعتقد من الأهمية لتعرف نفسه ‏على كثير من اللغات قدر الامكان.اجدها التحدي أحيانا ولكن تخصصي لغات أجنبية و دراسات دولية-- الاسم كلها-- بذلك أحتاج أن أكون لصبر

My reason for learning such a powerful language is it helps me to consider other cultures. I think it's very important to familiarize oneself with other languages as much as they can. At times, I find it challenging but my major is Foreign Languages and International Studies (that's the entire title) , so I need to have patience. :) I didn't feel like typing the rest up, haha. I'm also looking into learning French, (I could kill two birds with one stone by travelling to Algeria or Tunis) Spanish, Farsi, and Swahili. Anyway, 2ana sa3iida bi-lliqaaikum!
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